Please help me and my dog

moonstone wrote:Basil i think most of the admin are now on the Facebook forum certainly there is more "action" on there

That maybe but why abandon this one??

They are probably spies for rspca they monitor forums looking for evidence to prosecute also they do not like any animal rights (ARA)we are public enemy no.1 now forget terroist just punish animal lovers/carers

I cannot help wondering who are the people who are looking tho'. It's Sunday morning, 8 am and there are 17 users online. Also who are these people who register but never post?

Basil i think most of the admin are now on the Facebook forum certainly there is more "action" on there

This is why i wanted to set up another forum and kick this one into touch but i`m finding myself screwed down by work more and more.
Admin should be here every day not once every three years. Because no one is here to offer advice or comfort witsend probably thinks she`s been deserted. As for reading the forum without having to log in is absolutely crazy.
This forum is dead on it`s feet.

I don'tknow what is happening, I thought it was Wednesday they were coming back to check on the dog(s) but nothing posted yet. Hope all is ok with Whitsend.

Has there ben any update on this case yet?

As stated below they cannot take your animals. They have no legal clout and as such have stolen your rabbit and ferret.
When they show upn again with the police in tow ask a policeman inside on his own.
DO NOT ALLOW ENTRY TO ANYONE ELSE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
Show the police my "What we wanted to hear" video. Show him your dog and remind him that they do not have the right to remove anything as they are a charity and not a legal organisation.

So right Moonstone, they take you by surprise as you never expect that so-called "friends/neighbours" would stoop to such deceitful behaviour, and it is obviously "friends and neighbours" who set the ball rolling . The RSPCA do not patrol the country looking for destitute animals, they have sneaky informants (they call them concerned members of the public) who quite likely do not spend a penny taking care of a pet themselves but qite appy to ring the RSPCA to say that your rabbit hutches are in the wrong place or half an inch too small. I'm sure you have a good idea who shopped you too. In my case it was a couple who know not the first thing about horses (I had mine for 18 years). When they first moved into my yard they used to pay someone 20 a day to feed and hay their two horses in their absence. I did it for nothing, as a favour, but I have written proof (they made a mistake and named them on the statements) that THEY were the ones who met with the RSPCA and let them take my horse.

But I digress, Whitsend. If they are still due to come tomorrow and interview ie "interrogate" you, be sure that you have someone with you, partner/friend. If you do not like the sound of any questions, as Moonstone says, just say you do not know or that you do not understand or sya "no comment". Play thick if you have to, it does not matter. But do not face them alone as they will not be alone. Remember thay have had a week to dig up some questions to get you in a corner - remember they are sneaky. With Zola 34 who has posted on this site they dug up details of a previous partner which implied that they had spoken to neighbours. If they caution you, listen to the caution and note it says that YOU can terminate the interrogation at any point. If it gets grim, tell them you want to end the interview.

Let us know please what happens. Good luck.

Trilby

You are NOT foolish most of us on here have fallen for the same trick this is rspca this is what they do/stand for they are NOT interested in animal welfare just getting convictions/publicity/which equals more donations please spread the word that this is what they do and the fact that they have no powers of entry/arrest/caution the more people who know this the less they will be able to trick others into falling for the same thing/lies only in this way will we be able to deafeat them/they are the enemy of all animal carers/lovers
They are run as a buisness now and have to show a profit at the end of the year hence they will pick on "easy" targets (you)BTW be careful what you print as they monitor forums such as this and gather info for their prosecutions (this has been proved)
As Trilby has said get your vet down to give you a full inspection and get his report sent to them this will aid your case (it's what i did to keep my bunnies)they cannot go against a vet's word as he out ranks them
Do NOt trust them be careful what you say as they twist everything best to just say "no comment" to every question they ask
They probably will come back for another visit (they did to me) but they let me know that they would be visiting and i made a huge effort with my hutches/bunny house and also hid some of my buns in a neighbour's garden which they missed

Whitsend, try Googling "basic legal advice for pet owners" which states that the RSPCA are NOT authorised to remove your animals without court order or warrant, but you should be aware that they WILL do. And once they have done it there seems to be nothing you can do about it. Be aware too that they are a law unto themselves, which of course you do not realise until they have pounced. In the case of a horse, pony, animal living outside they will just grab it. There is a Self Help Group with various helpful articles, google RSPCA self help group, but I really think you have to get an expert (vet) on your side before they come back. You can bet there will be at least two or three of them. Yes, you do feel that you could kick yourself, but the fact is, even tho I had heard mutterings about how the uniformed division worked, I really thought that the stories were exaggerated. Unfortunately they have the money (donated by genuine animal lovers)to go to court whenever they want to. They spend approximately seven million a year on private prosecutions. They refuse to use the Crown Prosecution Service, it's the most expensive law firms for them and any vet they get out to look at your animal will be the most expensive in the area. They will be "expert witnesses" and charge accordingly. I would indeed ask to see a copy of the veterinary report as you are surely entitled to see what their "expert witness" is saying about your animals. But unfortunately, as they are working for the RSPCA they will say what the RSPCA wants them to. Even if they use an RSPCA vet they are on the same side if you get my meaning. Did they take photos while you were there? Or did they trespass on your property to do that? And believe me, whether their evidence is valid or not is unimportant, they seem to have it all their own way. I told the magistrates that their were discrepancies on their statements but they were not interested in asking what they were. I still have the evidence but believe me if you get Legal Aid it will be rubbish. They did not even read my case notes in advance. Try to be sure that you comply with their "advice" about the dogs' accommodation. That does not help with your rabbit/ferret, I didn't realise you had signed them over. All because some "concerned" neighbour wanted to cause trouble.

By the way. The reason they take so many people to court is that altho it costs, it is cheaper than advertising. They take someone to court, publish the case details, your name AND HOME ADDRESS and boast about how they saved your animals from a life or torture. After that, the donations roll in from the gullible public. That is a fact and that is why they do it. They do nothing about the horses dying every year in the Grand National,battery hens, factory farming, nothing about halal abattoirs but they will pick on you if your ferret has fleas of your rabbit hutch is the wrong colour. They pick the easy victims every time.

I know so many animal lovers now who will only donate to the small rescues and charities as they know someone who has been an RSPCA victim.

Speak soon

Take Care.

Trilby

we really feel so so foolish to have let this happen there was no warrant or court order they asked us to sign over the animals or they would seize them as they wanted to take the dogs too we decided to sign the rabbit and ferret over get the feeling weve screwed ourselves by doing that. I cannot believe that they can get away with doing the things they do being such a big organisation and what they put you through with your horse trilby and your bunnies moonstone is shocking and makes me feel sick

When they entered the house it was all about the rabbit and ferret this is when she cautioned us there was no interview as she decided to do it down at our local police station this is still to take place on an unknown date so far i think as she will be calling me i will request to see the report carried out by the vet but should i do this on the phone call? or when actually in the interview where she would have less time to "forge" these documents

they are coming on wednesday to view the house again regarding the dogs where again there will be a police officer present so although we know they are coming is a request for a warrant still valid? and if the first time they did trick their way in is their evidence valid??

they have informed us what they want us to do regarding the dogs and they will take them if we do not meet their criteria they have just cautioned us under animal cruelty again that was when this was a question of the animals outside not inside so would we have to be issued another caution first regarding the dogs?

Hello again Whitsend.

Well, as Moonstone said, LEGALLY they can only remove an animal with a warrant or court order. But, as you saw, they took your rabbit and ferret without one. They took my horse without one. So be careful. Have they actually suggested what is wrong with your dog's living accommodation and advised you how it should be changed? If and when they come back, if it comes to it, they have to caution you by saying that anything you DO say may be used...but that you do not have to say anything. They will ask if you want a solicitor present and your best bet is to say yes as it will delay anything they are plotting. They will advise you that you can terminate the "interview" (interrogation) at any time, so just say, OK, I would like to terminate it now. I would like time to get legal advice.

As they took your ferret and rabbit, it is odd that they did not take the dog. Have they told you what changes they want you to put in place to shut them up? And also, when were the photos taken of your outside animals? In your presence when you were there?? I assume the vet they took the photos to was either an RSPCA vet, or a private one they pay really well to give a bad report. Or did they sneak in in usual fashion and were they trespassing? I am not exaggerating when I say that my horse was seized and kept for 3 months by RSPCA. Their "expert witness" (greedy b*****d vet) ran up bills of 600 a month for four months until my horse was handed to ILPH (latterly known as World Horse Welfare). They issued a "press release" attacking me and saying that the horse was now being rehabilitated so she could be rehomed, but when I checked the National Equine Database they had killed her. NO ATTEMPT to rehome. She never once appeared on their rehoming website as I checked it weekly. Her problem? She had lice which I had treated but RSPCA lied on her statement and contradicted World Horse Welfare statement. And RSPCA did NOT check the other mares in the field who had NOT been treated for lice. When I said in court that there were discrepancies on the witness staements, ie that they were lying, my car was written off by vandals. The police forensics team said I was being "intimidated" and asked me if I was "in dispute" with anyone.

Any idea who phoned the Gestapo?

Regards

Trilby.

Just thought to tell you that DO NOT believe anything that they say as they LIE if they question you are should only reply "no comment" do NOT invite them in as they have no powers or right of entry to your porperty they can only enter if you invite them in they rely on you not knowing the law or what your rights are and rely on intimdation you could try contacting SHG (google) they are related to this forum and will be able to give you expert advice

Hi...well i know just how you were made to feel as they did the same to me i too was home alone when they forced their way into my house i was pushed up against a wall and had my hands held above my head while the bitch let in police and other inspectors
I let them in at first as i was terriied that they would harm my bunnies (i did rescue and had saved all these buns from being killed by their former owners)i refused to sign them over and made them leave (at this point i didn't know that they have no right of entry or any powers)they returned with police and i wouldn't let them in so they tricked me into opening my door then in they came they stole my bunnies saying that they had to see their vet despite the fact that i had already spoken with my vet and told him that this mad woman would be reporting me and he had offered to come out and speak up for me they took them all but next day after seeing thier vet they returned them all many were injured and several had to have surgery thanks to the awful treatment they got from that evil mob and the water trick yes they did that to me too kept telling me it was dirty (i had large bowls out for my buns)the water was fresh that morning but i threw it away as they made such a fuss about it then they took pics of the empty bowls and CLAIMED THAT I HAD LEFT MY BUNS WITHOUT WATER!they put the pics they took of my rabbit house on their website which i made them take down
They are an evil bunch of animal hating scumbags
Make sure that your rabbit/hutches are clean and the buns have lots of hay/clean the water bottles (just to make sure) and have some sort of exercise run available so they can see that you have made an effort when they return then you should be ok remember they have NO POWERS!i don't think they will be able to take your dog but if they say they will check all paper work as they forge documents

Hi and thank you for your advice so far. I now have more info and things I have thought of once i had posted this well

1. The police officer did not show us a search warrant to search the house so can any evidence found in the house including the threat of the dog be valid? I was home alone ok im 24 but when you have a policeman standing on your door informing you "he is coming in to search the house" your brain turns to mush so it feels like they got into our house by using for want of a better word trickery

2. A vet was not present the RSPCA officer said she had taken pictures of the animals outside living area to a vets and they had said it was not satisfactory as you can imaging we were so so stressed and dumbfounded at the time that we did not think to request to see that report from the vets...Can we still request this?

The case of cruelty isnt against the dogs its about the rabbit and ferret outside so if we pass the dog test and they decide we have been cruel regarding the outside animals they will still take the dog wont they??

Hi Whitsend and sorry that you have been "raided" by the evil scumbags i would echo the advice that trilby Bee has given you and get your vet out to inspect your dog and hi living arrangements rspca are NOT vets and they cannot over rule what a vet says so that really is your best chance of keeping your dog safe
rspca have NO right of entry (hence the police) they cannot remove animals without a warrant and a court order so do NOT let them take your dog away unless they have these documents with them you do not have to let them in if they do not have a warrant even with the police if they try to gain entry (they did this to me) by force then call police yourself and report them
What happened to your rabbit? did they take him too?
If you need more advice try the Facebook group rspca-money grabbing and couldn't care less (google it)there are solicitors who specilise in taking on cases such as yours and fighting rspca so your are not alone and help is there for you

Oh dear, Whitsend, another nightmare raises its ugly head at the hands of the RSPCA. If they came with a policeman, they were obviously intending to take an animal as they do not have the power to do anything like that without backup. When the s**t hits the fan, ie if it comes to court and the policeman has to give a statement as to his role in the confiscation of the animal he will say that he removed it aand handed it to them. It sounds very much as tho' a neighbour has done the dirty; the RSCA like to call them "concerned members of the public". Alternatively they are interfering s**t-stirring busybodies who as like as not would not spend a penny on feeding a stray cat like you and I would.

Well, I think your best bet is to get a vet, either your own vet (or one who will be prepared be on your side) to look at your animals and say in his/her opinion they are fine. If they were so concerned about your dog, why was it not taken? Did they say what was actually wrong with its living quarters? If they did not take the dog, then it is surely because there was nowt wrong with it. They had the policeman there so they could have taken the dog with HIS authority. Did they have a vet with them? You do not mention it. Think you should get hold of your vet and let him/her take a look at your dog.If the vet is happy with the condition of your dog and its living conditions, you need him to see the rabbit/s. I know this will cost you but if as a result of it they are told your animals are fine then the RSPCA should have to foot the bill for everything.

I think the next thing i would do is go to Citizens' Advice. They do not have legal training but have lists of things which help (eg local Legal Aid solicitors if you think you might qualify for that. If you can afford a solicitor who is not doing the case on Legal Aid, so much the better I had legal Aid and it was a joke, they did the least possible and turned up to court 5 hours late etc etc. They did not help my case one bit and had not even read the notes. It was a shambles. Saying that, there may be some who are decent.)

Do not take this lightly, you are quite right to be worried. They wll be like a dog with a bone. But think that's the way to deal with it, grab yourself a vet re. the dog. If your vet says the dog is in OK condition and has living conditions where he can express himself (ie act like a dog)then you get that in writing, or better still, let RSPCA phone your vet so your vet can tell them exactly what he thinks of them. Dogs do NOT need luxury, plasma TV's or double glazing to be happy. I truly think one of your neighbours has been involved here. is it possible that the dog has barked and annoyed them at times?? Just a thought.

One of outr members, MOONSTONE had her rabbits seized but they had to give them back as there was nothing wrong with them.

Don't let it get you down.

KIND REGARDS xx

ok the RSPCA say my dog has poor living conditions he is spoilt rotten he has his own sofa 24/7 access to food water toys walked twice daily all the usual stuff we are under suspicion of cruelty for the animals living outside (also ridiculous my favourite comment on a leaflet they left dirty water in water bottle?? How can water in a water bottle get dirty?? they have taken the otside animals today (this was origionally about a rabbit and is now on the dog) but this is the main question we have been given a week to sort out the living contitions for the dog when they will come back and assess the situation but if they do decide that we are guilty of animal cruelty can they come back within that week and take the dog? and if they took the outside animals today when would they be "tested" to see if we had been cruel is it straight away?? like the same day??

Also if they do come back in a weeks time and do check and the dog "were not at home" and decided they wanted to take them can we be forced to reveal where he is or could we "sell" the dog with proof like a reciept would we have to give his wareabouts??

Additional info there was a policamen present today and when they return apparenly he will be there too I know the RSPCA doesnt have much power but the police do

please please help me