help and advice to get my horses back

If you go to court then they will add court costs onto the cost of your legal fees you will also be charged for your horses care (i will use that word loosely were they are concerned)accoma
dation and feed so it will be a hefty bill if you are found guilty
Hopefully your legal advisor will be able to get to the bottom of why they have stolen your horses

i will ask him on monday morning its all a big joke

TOM!! I was on legal aid but i still got stung with a MASSIVE bill for costs, much to do with the greedy private vet the RSPCA has to use. Check with your lawyer how much the bill is so far. Mine were rubbish, all of them told me I would be able to pay "a tenner a month! but don't you believe it, get the facts STRAIGHT from your lawyer.

i own my own 20 acres of field me and my family camp up the all the time that is our holidays i am getting legal aid as i am on job secers the horses are for all the kids because they have disabilities and farm is no good for them but my field is perfect

Tom...poor you and your poor wife and children.

I was delighted to hear that the blood tests came back within acceptable limits which you probably expected, but Tom, they stole my mare whom I had owned for 17 years (I did not take a holiday in that time as I did not trust anyone else to care for her after I ONCE had a day off for my father's funeral 200 miles away and got back to a horse who had a serious kick to her hock which no-one noticed and she had to go to the Equine Hospital in Liphook for treatment). These were people whose horses I had looked after countless times when they went on holiday and the same ones who called the RSPCA when they wanted to get their hands on my yard. All my mare's bloodtests came back negative for everything, but that did not stop the local vet called in by the RSPCA from doing a mountain iof tests to see if she might be dying. He found nothing, but the FIRST time I went to court the Duty Solicitor (a sh*t) told me my case had already cost 3000 quid. So DO ask your solicitor what happens with the costs. I was on legal aid but got hit with over 4000 and that was for ONE horse. Then they shot her. DO please take up Millie's offer of help as you may need it. I do not know if you are on Legal Aid or not, but I was and it was rubbish and so was the law firm

I wish you all the best, try to get your case adjourned again if you can and get as much as you can against them.

thankyou very much me and my kids are goin to court in 2 weeks for our horses they want to tell them all just how they feel and how the rspca and the people that are minding the horses told them that they are not getting them back so make shore you say goodbye my kids were destroght i dont know how they can sleep at night

Oh dear poor you and your poor daughter i have a daughter myself who when younger got into drugs it was an awful shock and she was horrible now she's a mum of two and bitterly regrets what she did and NO rspca do not care about anything except getting more money which means picking on caring owner's and taking away their animal's away from them you can just imagine the headlines that they will conjure up about you if you end up in court
Give your daughter a big cuddle from all of us on here she must be very upset and confused

i have just found out that my 16 year old daughter has been carving her horses name into her leg and now she is smoking and drinking the rspca do not think about who they are herting it has had a massive effect on my children

You are doing just great Tom considering the stress you must be under I know when i had my troubles with the scumbags i hardly slept for weeks i knew that they would be coming back to do another inspection and it as possible that they would try to take my bunnies away again the bitch who reported me was busy making a list of possible new owner's for my buns which she put on many rabbit forum's she had planned to come marching into my house and take my pet's with rspca help but luckily that didn't happen
We are all keeping our fingers crossed for you and know how you are feeling as we have been there too

i know its hard to understand but there is alot of paper work and everything involved i am no good on the laptop really just know the basics

why is your friend being allowed them back and not you?
do you think it might be to do with the number of horses you own - they are prejudiced against people who own a lot and also breeders since they believe you have to spend £'00000 for many and loads of time and do not want any more breeding. As you and i know owning more horses does actually cut costs per head as you can buy bulk and get better price nad if living out they really dont require much time unless ill/pregnant. Funny they are also against racing especially overproduction of horses on welfare of cast offs- but they dont attend the lower racing sales such as ascot , where even Jamie Gray was buying after his ban! Some of the horses at these places should be turned away by the auctioneer as not suitable for sale but they dont - even lame and very skinny ones!

If you want me to have a look at the paperwork for your case before court please try to get all to me somehow as I am working only on the bits and pieces you are telling me.

my friend contacted the rspca today to get his horses back he told him he will come out week on mondy to view the frm he is going on but they have already cautioned him for these he is just waiting for them back

still the horse with 'arthritis' should have been treated for his pain sooner
worm damage is poosible and depending on if you had horses since birth could have occured before you had them and anyway they cant test for worm damage by blood test, only for presence of tapeworm, to test for worm burden they have to do pooh sample testing which is highly inaccurate. To test for existing worm damage they would have to tube the horse into his stomach and see the damage, or possibly open him up in operating theatre. I once had a horse many years ago - bought as a 5 yo, sold as an 8yo treated every 8 weeks with wormers etc about a year after I sold him he became very ill and was in Bristol Vet Hospital - they refused to bring him round from sleep as he had such worm damage but thought to have been caused between 0 and 1 year old.

I still think you need to get these samples tested (can be covered by legal aid - expert report)

they said they had damage by worms and ragwart but the results come back as having none and the horse with suspected arthritus has in fact he has twisted his leg his tendants are swollen thats all

depends what they were testing for - they have never tested any of my horses blood samples in any of the cases for tapeworm for expample (the only way of testing to tapeworm) despite the fact the all my horses were declared as underweight! Your solicitor must apply for a part of these samples for independant testing - tell them to look at Schedule 2 of the Animal Welfare Act Sections 11 and 12 - you need to be able to test independantly if you dont think they have tested for the right things.

One of mine also came back with slight liver damage - prognosis guarded but blood test taken 3 months later by same vet showed improvement to within normal limits. If they havent had your horses long get yourvet to take new bloods to test again or ask if RSPCA vet has done so - again you may need to get these independantly tested.

I take it the arthritis is only suspected - can you vet suggest snything else to explain the symptoms

the blood results come back clear nothing wrong with him but there are trying to say the horse has liver damage and inflamed intestines

tom I sent you an email address through PM if you can send me copies of all the statements for the prosecution I will do my best to draft a defence for you to give to your solicitor. If it looks like there is enough to work on it might be that you try to get the court case adjourned for a while to gather more evidence/prepare defence etc

Please email the statements to the address given or contact me through it and i will give you apostal address if you want to send them - your solicitor MUST give you full copy of everything they have so far

i am due in court in less then 2 weeks now i dont think solicitors know therre jobs they only think about the money nd not the hppyness of the animals

Absolutely true, they cannot bear bad publicity and they do deserve it. Tom, well done that you have got onto the SHG, you need to look after yourself as you do not have the 115 million that the RSPCA has conned from animal-loving benefactors. It is dreadful that your pony has not been looked after properly by the woman paid by the RSPCA and you must work on your vet to write a really damning report about them.

Millie, I cannot believe they are still stealing your horses. I thought when they took the first batch that was it. Have the given a reason for grabbing this lot too? The thing with horses is that they are unfortunately in a vulnerable position. Some miserable a***hole in my yard rang and told them what time I would NOT be there and he met the RSPCA bitch and unlocked the yard and let her in to steal my mare. There was nothing I could do as I was 20 miles away and it was the rush hour. It happens with horses, unless you get a caravan and sleep there it is impossible to watch your horse/s all the time. But Moonstone had her rabbits taken while she was there, and it is always some sh*t-stirrer who gets their kicks by poking their big noses where they do not belong.

Millie and TOM: Did either of you have the World Horse Welfare creeps before the RSPCA? The thing is they sneak around but have even less power than the RSPCA and so after they have sniffed and snooped, they call the RSPCA. But as the RSPCA knows so LITTLE about horses they normally keep the WHW in business by calling them in too.

Brilliant news One way to beat the scumbags is to fight them they also hate bad publicity so consider getting the press on your side bad publicity means less donation for their overfull coffers hit them where it hurts them in the wallet

i have just phoned the shg they give me some good infomation on what i need to do next

We all want that Tom they act illegally (as you have now found out)and make the rules up as they go along this has to be stopped
I do think that they are losing public support and many are finding out just what scumbags they really are
When they seized my rescue rabbits they had neither a warrant nor a court order but that didn't stop them i was "lucky" as i wasn't prosecuted and got my bunnies back the next day albeit many suffering from injuries (which they tried to claim had happened before they stole them) and 14 died from stress/enteritis after they were returned
it seems that they have done the same with your horses do contatct SHG they will give you expert advice and Millie i am so sorry that you have had your 4 horses stolen i hope they are returned soon.

im sorry to hear about what the rspc have done to you it is a joke i would love to destroy them i truly would

Also found out from SHG last night that this is a CIVIL claim you have to make so you will not get legal aid for it. Go to your nearest Court and ask to see the magistrates clerk - he will know how to make the claim. Unless you are willing/able to pay the solicitor you will have to do this yourself. He will also know what you need to say.

Then if you still feel strong enough, make an appointment to see your local MP and ask him why the only defence for an owner under Section 20 is a civil matter and hence excludes many being prosecuted by the RSPCA who arent legally trained nor have money to actually make these claims. If the Law makes us criminals if we break them, then the recourse for justice should also be treated as such and not switch sides to Civil! (Not sure this makes a whole lot of sense but try the SHG and also speak to your solicitor.

Please Please get a copy of the act http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/45/pdfs/ukpga_20060045_en.pdf and read it all, every case is different and you may find other areas that fit your case not mine.

Good luck and keep me posted on news

Hi Tom - have read your reply quickly and would suggest you do the following (please bear in mind I am very stressed today as the RSPCA took my last 4 horses yesterday and I have a number of issues of my own today - however, I spoke to SHG last night - you really must call them, and they said as 2 of mine are in wqorse condition now than when taken that : -----
You MUST report this back to the police and get a crime number as they are contravening the Animal Welfare Act themselves (in your case it would be Section 9 2 e - failure to protect from pain and suffering) - they suggest you do NOT speak to the enquiry desk but ask to speak directly to the duty sergeant or inspector (I am waiting to go back and see him as I type). Report the RSPCA/minder and by implication the Police (they must have signed off the seizure of your ponies initially as the RSPCA has NO RIGHT to take them) The Police are responsible for the animal even if they have handed over care to the RSPCA as they are the one's taking possession not the RSPCA and they cannot pass on the ownership rights until the case is heard in court and you lose. You must do this now today somehow, also say that you want your nominated vet to accompany the police when they investigate and that they must NOT forwarn the 'minder/RSPCA' of their visit, as they dont when they come to see your horses before they are taken. If possible maybe you will be allowed to go to - have you kept the records of your conversations with your vet and the minder (you must) Also if you are speaking to the duty police you need to get the conversation recorded somehow, if necessary you could try to ask for them to tape the conversation you have with them. Do not go over the case, just the condition the horses were taken in and the condition now - that should be enough for them to investigate.